Written by: Adam Christianson
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A podcast about all things Macintosh. For Mac geeks, by Mac geeks. Show 131. Apple shelters its bottom line in Reno. MacBook as soon as May? The Boot Camp aftermath. Benchmarks show Mac as as good at running XP as a PC. Virtualization with Parallels Workstation 2.1 Beta. Mixed reactions to Boot Camp. What Boot Camp means for Apples future. Tip on using Spotlight in your Preferences. An OS X Vista joke.
New music, Stop and Start by The Bathtub Marys
Promo for Mac Tips Daily Contest
Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!
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Adam, I am glad you mentioned thinking about security if people decide to use MacDrive on Win XP. Like I mentioned in my review, I feel somewhat protected with Windows NOT being able to see my Mac partition.. That is why I went with Fat 32, so I can see XP from OS X, and I can transfer files that way.
I wrote about this a little on my site, and I figured I’d paste it here for you to see the commentary:
The original post with links is at http://www.dotstrosity.net
The only problem with that is that when a Windows boc is put into the Hibernate mode no matter what other OS is on the system it is forced to boot back into windows due to the hibernation.
I’m willing to bet that if they can create a virtualization solution inside OS X, they can modify the way the system handles hibernated operating systems.
Is it just me or did anyone else subscribed to the enhanced feed get a Super Man eposiode (the original superman cartoon audio only)?
Boot Camp makes me want to consider a Mac again … haven’t owned a Mac since Motorola 68040 chip days … O/S 7.6.1 …
I would like to consider the Mac again since I want to use a machine that uses the BSD kernel and has FULL HARDWARE DRIVER support (unlike FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD)
But being abandoned by Apple in the past, I would want to be assured I could keep using new applications without switching to new machines … XP booting on a Mac/Intel machine would at least let me keep running new Microsoft appls on the machine … just in case Apple abandons the O/S 10.X that I might have on a Mac mini/IMac …
I find Microsoft much more concerned about “grandfathering” old software on their O/S than Apple … Apple often forces a MACHINE AND O/S upgrade to get new features … rampant with the IPODS …
So, if the Intel Mac starts as dual booting XP and Apple decides “drop interest” in my O/S X release & machine … at least XP can still be relied on to host new apps … or boot FreeBSD or SuSE Linux …
I do like the Apple Software/Hardware interface best … until Jobs decides to drop a whole line of machines and O/S’s.
P.S: I am a big VMWare fan on both XP and Linux … hear that they may have a version for OS-X in the near future …
I hear what you’re saying Herb, but embracing the MacOS in no way has to mean embracing Proprietary formats any more. I only just got rid of my Windows machine a few weeks ago (before MacTel booting had appeared), and for a long time before then I was doing everything in a platform-neutral way (and still am):
All my web-browsing is in Firefox (or Camino, the more Mac-Oriented Mozilla browser), e-mail is in Thunderbird both of which have PC versions which can use the same data-files. Chat is Adium-X (which is just hooking into the Yahoo, MSN, AOL, and ICQ messenger servers), so going back to Trillian would be easy, if a bit disappointing.
Personally I stick with Mac Office, probably more because I don’t need to use it much, but from the looks of it the iLife suite can write to the evil Office formats quite well. Also inter-Office compatibility isn’t a problem these days, not like the nightmare it once was. (My work involved lots of printing from both platforms, so I know how much better it has become.)
My music is all iTunes (either mp3 or aac), which I’m happy to stick with since the Mac and PC clients interoperate so well (including sharing over a network.) And for my digital camera I just download them straight to the hard-drive with the Apples basic (but very pretty) camera app. ..I avoid iPhoto purely because I don’t agree with its default file placement and naming rules, besides which I’m a Photoshop guy anyway (again, platform neutral.)
Any video stuff I rip is in DivX or XVid formats, which I tend to play in VLC on either platform. The Mac RealPlayer client is quite nice too, without the deeply embedded advertising crap the PC one has. And finally the Flip4Mac Windows Media plugin means Mac is no longer a second class citizen when it comes to playing Windows Media files. Note: The Mac DVD Player is awesome. I don’t miss PowerDVD at all.
And finally, a lot of my gaming is Emulation: Frodo (c64), MAME (arcade), ScummVM, etc. ..the disk/rom files for all of these work on my old PC (and Amiga.) :) Same goes for the cool MOD and SID music players. (Yeah, I’m that retro.)
Hmmmmm… Have I missed anything?
So basically, I could switch back to a PC any day and only need maybe a day to set everything back up (though, of course, windows will take a wee bit longer with drivers/antivirus, etc.) I would miss the MacOS itself though. Apple has put a *hell* of a lot of work into it. Like Adam here, I really can’t see them ever abandoning it. (Hell, if by some strange curse they have to cease all hardware production, they still have a valuable Software package they could sell on Intel boxes.)
..I have absolutely no concern I’ll need to abandon the Mac anytime in the near, (or distant) future. All of MacOS 10’s evolution has been about open standards and fitting in with the file, format, and network environments of the PC world. This whole WinTel thing shows they are *serious* about staying in the game. They’re not trying to make it easy to drop MacOS. They’re trying to make it easy for PC people to drop WinXP. (note the ease with which the Windows boot partition can eventually be removed.)
So relax, enjoy the ride. And don’t feel afraid to tinker around with the MacOS side of the partition-boundary. Many (and I *mean* many) of the aspects of embracing the classic Mac that made it hard to back out to Windows again are a thing of the past. Dead, buried, and gladly forgotten.
(apologies for the huge-long ramblings.) :)
I strikes me a lot of people are posting comments on whether or not BootCamp makes sense and they don’t actually have it or an Intel iMac to speak from experience. Well i do and it’s awesome. I was about to buy a whole PC just for gaming. And yesterday i went out and bought Battlefield 2 and Oblivion and they run perfect on my iMac 20 inch intel core duo. I’ve also convince my mother in law to buy a mac mini rather than a pc so she can use iChat AV with us and all the iLife Apps and still use the PC for her little financial app she uses. Try to tell me that that’s not a real life example of how Boot Camp makes a difference to every day users and their purchasing habits.
One last thing – Apple, Virtualization will be great, but leave dual boot as an option as well, i don’t want to virtualize a hard core game as i need every ounce of processing power.
It seems to me that BootCamp provides a choice that didn’t exist before, and that in itself is a good things. As a result for those that it adds a benefit to their computing experience they can use it, for those that don’t have a use for it they can ignore it!
After all choice isn’t a bad thing, it is what you do with that choice that can be a bad thing :-)
Nice article about one user’s installation and pc gaming experience. Half Life 2 and Far Cry apparently run perfectly: http://whatdoiknow.org/archives/002682.shtml
Thanks Adam for the info in this show. I’m one of those like you who must use Windows for work, but would love to have a Mac as my notebook. I use Macromedia Captivate, which is not available for OS X. All my other apps are available for OS X. My work notebook is due to be replaced in the next few months and I’m going to pitch for a MacBook Pro now that I can boot XP and run Captivate.
I loaded Parallels Workstation 2.1 on my Core Duo Mini and was mildly impressed. From what I’ve seen so far, it’s a bit better than VirtualPC was on my iBook. For some reason, though, there are no audio drivers and the networking doesn’t seem to work all that well. More to follow as I tinker with it. (Details on my blog, linked above.)
I just received a fresh, sealed, full copy of XP SP2, so I’ll be loading Boot Camp within the next couple of days.
Great podcast, Adam. I don’t always agree with you, but your show is always thought-provoking and informative.
Don’t listen to the complainers, the show is fantastic, your doing a great job. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the great Boot Camp segment.
Apple won’t abandon Mac OS (or sell it to other platforms) because it’s how they can differentiate their product from the overal pc market and therefore achieve such high profit margins on their computers. One could argue that there may be a larger market for high-end PC’s than high-end Macs, but Apple is generally not risky when it comes to business strategy (think “iPod that happens to play video”), and Boot Camp is an effortless way to possibly expand their market share without abandoning their existing one.
Adam, when you get your new mac ‘test system’, to test XP on, could you let us know how much money you had or have to spend in terms of software for either the PC or Mac side to get these tests in gear?
Thanks to all those who made the donation(s) on all the listener’s behalf’s.
spotlights in system prefs? Who didn’t know that?? HEllo?? didnt steve show us this one day? btw, try wi-fi & wallpaper
Adam, seeing that you are rightfully covering the going ons of Boot Camp, could you give us a very short comment with respect to CTO Avia Tevanian? He just resigned from Apple to follow other pursuits and he should be recognized for his incredible contributions he left at Apple. I think it would certainly be within the scope of what you are covering. It may not be directly related to Boot Camp but he is certainly the individual who set Apple’s software map.
Here are some initial links;
Gosh what if Steve leaves? http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/market-wants-to-know-apple-will-stay-fresh-after-jobs/2006/03/24/1143083984252.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
I sure hope you are right.
You do realize that Apple could gain marketshare in hardware, but lose OS marketshare. Some initial tests show that Apple may be making the best PC already (which makes you wonder what Dell has been up to lately). I can see a scenario that Apple’s hardware can become a viable competitor for running Windows, and they may feel that further development of OS X is no longer justifiable.
My optimistic (Pollyanna-ish) prediction is like yours: PC users will buy Apple hardware because they can run it as a Windows box, at least, but when they use OS X, they will become hooked and we will grow OS X market share.
I hope you, me and Steve are right on this one!
I really don’t see Boot Camp converting that many people to OSX. A switcher has to commit to OSX to learn it. Going back and forth will not convince many to use OSX. IN fact they probably won’t go back and forth much at all. If they are already comortable with XP and get frustrated with OSX (new users sometimes do because things don’t run exactly the same as in XP) what’s to keep them coming back to OSX? It’s too convienent to stay with XP when it’s installed on a Mac.
In order to win over users to OSX a real commitment to the switch has to be made (ie: dumping your PC and having no choice but to use the Mac). This forces you to learn the new OS. Most people are not willing to put in the time and effort to learn the new OS no matter how quick the learning curve is completed.
btw, john stone, I think Adam should listen to the complainers, 2 improve his show
oh, and Bruce I agree with you completely 100%
Whether Apple will give up on, or sell out its Mac OS X is not the question. We’re avoiding the products and people who have the greatest influence over hardware and OS decisions, albeit indirectly. Third-party app programmers and manufacturers are not getting the discussion focus that they require.
What about Apple’s hardware will prevent Adobe or Microsoft or other megacorps from abandoning the production of OS X apps? Microsoft can give Apple the slap in the face they might deserve (for the release of Boot Camp) by axing the production of Office for Mac. That would force all Apple users to buy their own license for XP in addition to the Office suite for Windows.
Adobe, on the other hand, can cut a large chunk of production costs by only offering the XP version of its most famous suite of products. Why bother programming, producing, and supporting OS X and its future variants when the XP version will run just fine on Apple hardware.
I am not a supporter of Boot Camp. This has every chance of being the beginning of the end of Apple’s uniqueness. Instead of focusing on more secure and generally better computing, Apple’s focus on entertainment and pop-coolness has caused the company to water down its primary advantage. I use Apple and Mac OS products for productivity, and Boot Camp seems like a betrayal to me. When major software providers bail on Mac OS X and eliminate the hassle for producing for two distinct operating systems, we’ll regret our infatuation with the topic, and we will have participated in the demise in the better computing that we once loved.
Sorry zealousagenda, but I think you have it wrong. Once someone has their shiny new mac, just how do you think they’re going to react when they’re told “to run Photoshop you’re going to have to buy WinXP to run it virtually” (assume for a second virtualized-XP is complete, so there’s no barrier to running PC apps from within MacOS.)
They’re thinking “what? I have to pay more $$$ just to run this app which I’m already paying plenty of $$$ for? Sod that, I’ll just buy CorelDraw instead.
It will still be in the interests of the developer to support MacOS (if they’re doing it already it’s not much of an extra expense), coz if they don’t, they’ll lose sales to developers who *do* support Mac.
adam i love my mac and your podcast but to use the phrase associated with a instrument of death the gun. cold dead hands is to debase macs and your podcast.
email me back if you have time
cold dead hands – it’s just an expression!!! :-) I thought it was funny and appropriate.
Adam, I actually disagree with you that just having access to XP from the Mac will be draw for more people to Mac. Let’s first agree on what “Mac” is today vs. when it was first created in ’84. Is it hardware, software or both? You’ve said it’s both, I say it’s both and many people would agree it’s both.
Having said (or agreed) to that, just letting PC users use the hardware will not create a switch to the software, especially if they just use Windoze.
The marketing swing needing to happening is this:
GIVEN: People are creatures of habbit. Most don’t like change. Though the Mac (h/w and s/w) is easier to use than a PC doesn’t matter for creatures of habbit. Most people will tell you, “Oh, I don’t know how to use a Mac. I don’t have time (which means interest) to learn that.”‘
WIFY: “What’s in it for you (PC user that has to change)” is that you’ve come to love the iPod and its simple interface. You’ve come to love iTunes and it’s ease of use. You haven’t been able to manage your digital quite so well. You’ve had viruses and spyware plague your system. Now you HAVE to change b/c MS is forcing you to do so. You’ve dipped your toe in these other Apple products. Perhaps this is your chance to set yourself free and experience something more powerful and more user-friendly than before by moving to Mac OS X. What’s more you’re protected, just-in-case, by being able to boot into XP but after a month (this is key) of honest usage with the Mac, we’ll bet you nearly stop all usage of XP.
ACTION: You are going to be faced with a cross roads. Learn the new Vista computer interface or forever be stuck in Win2000 or WinXP without ongoing support. ***OR*** you can learn Apple OS X with the ease of use, freedom from viruses and efficiencies you’ve never had on a PC but have experienced on the iPod and iTunes. EITHER WAY you’ve got to learn something NEW.
Dude,Nice Show You should also listen to my podcasts at garagemac.com
I loaded Boot Camp and XP on my Intel Mini last night. The installation went smoothly, just as everyone said. Performance seems to be pretty good, and I have to admit it’s kind of strange to see XP coming out of something with an Apple on it. I’ll post more on this experience in my blog at http://www.jtl.us.
I am of the belief that Boot Camp will not cause a flood of typical Windows users to “come over.” Sure, there will be a percentage, but I don’t think it will turn the market even close to, say, 50% Mac / 50% everyone else.
As a recent switcher to Mac (about a year and a half now), of course I want to see OSX succeed because it’s a superior environment. I just hope Apple knows what it’s doing and comes up with a real strategy for Windows support.
I think that good, solid, *stable* virtualization will be a better player in the “crossover” arena than dual-booting. It’s been 24 hours and I’m already tired of saving, shutting down, rebooting, holding down “Option,” selecting the other OS, waiting to login….
I’ve wanted to try OS X for a couple years, but I’m a student and don’t quite have the money to get a new computer (waiting until this summer). I’m also in engineering so getting PC is basically a given if you want to do school work from home. With Bootcamp it makes it easier to switch to Apple and still be able to use XP for the boring PC stuff.
Also, regarding support for Mac software if they can run XP, I think it would be too much of a burden on people to have to buy software and another operating system. I guess it depends on each software developer and if they’re willing to work with 2 operating systems or help Microsoft sell more OS’s.
Oh and you know people don’t know about Apple and how cool it can be when 80% of an engineering class says “ooo” when Expose is used during a presentation.
Gamers will not be moving to the mac anytime soon. Especially if they want to play games.
No Intel based Mac has the video horsepower to drive current, next gen, or even 1 gen old games with any kind of graphics quality PC gamers are used to.
I’d love it if I could put a 7800GT in a Mac Mini, but there’s no slot and the onboard video is barely passable as a 2d chipset. HL2 would bring the machine to its knees (gaming wise).
Also, the number of peeps gaming on laptops is just as slim as Apple market share. An intel-mac is not going to change that until Apple chooses to drop intel graphics for something that is at least passable.
Tetris aside, until Apple releases a dual, intel (or better yet amd) dual core, system with SLI on dual x16 slots, you won’t see anyone gaming on a Mac. However, dual booting to run business aps on a sexy Mac would be great! I guess running Quake 1 would be OK too…
That said, I love my DP G5 and FCP. I just see gaming on a Mac anytime soon.
Ron, you underestimate how many people buy laptops these days. It’s only the hardcore gamers that ‘need’ a desktop unit, and they’re a very small portion of the market. Laptops can be pretty good for gaming these days, and if a gamer is going to buy a laptop the MacBook Pro appears to be the best thing out there.
As for the desktop mac machines, yeah, the MacMini isn’t really a stellar gaming product, but is is their entry level machine so that’s to be expected. ..I dunno why you’re criticizing the iMacs tho. A 128MB PCI-Express graphics card is hardly a slouch. And, for example, Elder Scrolls: Oblivion will be quite happy with it. Sure, you won’t be able to play cutting-edge stuff on it in another couple of years, but it’s only a mid range machine. ..If you’re a serious gamer and you want a Mac you just have to wait for the tower units, which will certainly have a kick-ass (and upgradable) graphics card.
The stats you are expecting before ‘anyone’ will buy a mac for gaming are, well, ridiculous. AMD ain’t that far ahead of Intel any more, and SLI has hardly become mainstream yet, even amongst the hardcore. For the vast majority of gamers, who don’t seek such cutting-edge hardware specs, the Macs will do fine. Apple won’t be losing any sleep if they lose that fraction of a percent of sales that constitutes the hardcore.